Tommy Rhodes on Summer Camps

Written By Kylie Larson

Tommy Rhodes, founder of Barefoot Republic summer camp, joins us to talk about his mission to build a summer camp population that reflects the diversity of heaven. This Christian camp aims to foster shared experiences among kids of diverse backgrounds, financial situations, races, and ethnicities.

Rhodes, a firm believer in providence, not coincidence, shares pivotal moments from his life journey. He discusses the leap of faith in starting Barefoot Republic, and what it means to create something he wished for as a child. From a misfit upbringing in Alabama to selling everything to pursue his calling, Rhodes delves into the mystery of faith shaping the camp's foundation.

About Tommy Rhodes

Tommy Rhodes completed undergraduate degrees at Belmont University in Biology and Chemistry. He was a third year Ph. D. student in Vanderbilt University’s biomedical science program when he felt God call him to start a camp-based ministry.

He first experienced camp-based ministry as a counselor in Alabama in 1991. In 2000, after hearing God’s calling, he and his wife purchased a 70-acre farm on a 20,000-acre lake outside Scottsville, Kentucky. The first permanent Barefoot Republic camp started in 2009. Since then, Barefoot has served over 20,000 campers with a mission to celebrate diversity and build unity. 

  • Spencer  00:06

    Tommy Rhodes, welcome to signature required. We're excited to have you.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  00:10

    Thanks for having me.

     

    Spencer  00:11

    Tommy is the founder and executive director of barefoot Republic. So many of our viewers have no idea what barefoot Republic is. And I would imagine, if they took a guess, they'd probably be really wrong. So why don't you give us a little overview of what barefoot Republic is?

     

    Tommy Rhodes  00:29

    Yeah. So 25 years ago, the Lord called me into full time ministry, and I had been deeply impacted by summer Camping Ministry, and so God had asked me to step away from a PhD at Vanderbilt and sell my possessions and literally go buy a farm about an hour and 15 minutes north of Nashville.

     

    Spencer  00:48

    Okay, we're gonna have to get into that. We're gonna have to go there. All right, go ahead.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  00:53

    And so barefoot Republic, essentially is a Christ center camp that intentionally bring kids together from just very dramatically different backgrounds, racially, socioeconomically and culturally, and we feel like it's just a beautiful picture of heaven and a chance to create shared experiences between kids who think they'd have nothing in common.

     

    Spencer  01:14

    I love that intro, and you know that in under 60 seconds, that's good work. So okay, I have a couple things, but there's one very important piece of business that we have to get out of the way immediately, and that is, today is your birthday. So Anna Lee and I have done 1000s of these interviews, webinars, in person, and I don't think I have ever interviewed somebody on their birthday. So that is either an incredibly happy moment or such a sad moment. But I'm going to go very, very happy, and if I sing You Happy Birthday, it's going to get immediately edited out of this. So we're just going to skip that whole part, because nobody I thought it was about to happen.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  01:57

    Annalee is going to say, once you get on this side of 50, you really just try not to celebrate them quite as much.

     

    Spencer  02:02

    I hear you. Well, let's do a couple of the quick stats and figures on barefoot Republic, just so everybody understands the scope and size and location. So maybe just give me the quick run through. Where are you? How many campers, how long you've been around, just the quick P's and Q's of barefoot Republic.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  02:18

    Yeah. So this is our 25th year. Unbelievably, our first camp was in 2002 and so we tried to partner with some existing camps for a few years, and the Lord kept closing doors. There we will be celebrating our 25th 1,000th camper this summer, which is just absolutely amazing. And so we're anticipating about 3000 more campers this summer in 2024 Wow.

     

    Spencer  02:43

    Are you a year round facility? I mean, I would imagine camp is going to be more centered around the summer, yeah.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  02:50

    I mean, Camp is primarily in the summer, but we do offer parent child weekends and family camp experiences and winter camp experiences in the off season, and then we have our overnight facility just north of Nashville, which also operates as a retreat center, and so we're hosting 1000s of, you know, people from churches and schools and corporations, which is a blessing to us because it's kind of passive marketing, but also helps on the earned income side, so we can help subsidize some of our lower income campers, which is about 60% of Our campers. Then it helps us, you know, keep our employees as well, you know, throughout the year.

     

    Spencer  03:26

    Yeah, so I was a boy scout, so the only context that I understand camp in is, in comparison to camp would you walk in? And as you think about Tennessee in general, many of our listeners may have some correlation to say, Okay, I don't know what barefoot Republic is, but I do know what camp would you wagon is? Can you help just help us understand a little bit of what are the features of your camp? You don't have to bash on them. You're welcome to, if you don't. Just help us understand what the grounds are like. What are some of the activities there, just what an experience would be like in barefoot?

     

    Tommy Rhodes  04:02

    No, that's a great question. I mean, when we started 25 years ago, unbelievably, there were 8500 camps in America, which, you know, you divide that by 50, and that gives you an idea of how many were in Tennessee, yeah. And so you had to ask the question, why one more? You know, do we really need camp number 8501 and like I said, we tried to find somebody to come under the umbrella for the first couple of years, and the YMCA was one of the models that we looked at. And one of the things that we really felt called to do was be intentionally diverse. And so we were able to put together a focus group of kids who had the opportunity to go to whatever camp they wanted to, and they were one and done, yeah. And we're just like, wait a second, mom and dad, we'll send you to that camp. You know, we heard that camp was like the best camp in the world, and the feedback we got from this little, little cohort was that, you know, these kids were more introspective, more creative, you know, they just didn't really fit the vibe of the traditional summer camp. And so part of what very. If it wanted to do to reflect this diversity that we sought to create in our kids, was to have a platform that was equally as diverse. And so we felt like, yes, we wanted to do all the artistic activities, the athletic adventure act. I mean, the action adventure activities, but what about all these introspective creative types? You know, we felt like being in Nashville, Tennessee, we'd be crazy, you know, to bring in film studios and recording studios and performing arts, and that's just been a home run for us. And one of the things that's really set our programming apart throughout the years, but truly the intentional focus on diversity is really what makes barefoot distinct, and so we reserve at least 50% of our spaces for low income kids, but we're just as intentional about trying to get middle income and affluent kids to fill the other 50% and that's missional, but it's also financial, and so they work hand in hand for our ministry, and it's just been one of the ways that God has really provided for us through the years in creating a business model that is sustainable.

     

    Annalee Cate  06:01

    So I'm still way stuck back in the beginning. So you have this beautiful vision and this 25 year legacy that's existing, but I want to go back to when you said you were finishing a PhD at Vanderbilt and sold all your stuff and bought a farm. Because, you know, maybe it's the wife and me is like, Wait a minute. I have some questions. So my wife said, like, can we travel back in time a little bit and talk about that early stage and that moment? And, you know, from from there?

     

    Tommy Rhodes  06:33

    Yeah, we  were newlyweds at the time cool and so lane, my wife had heard the pipe dream. She knew that science was a means to an end. She just didn't realize the end was gonna be six months in. Months into our marriage.

     

    Spencer  06:45

    And so, you know, an amazing bait and switch.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  06:48

    Yeah, but she also told me she liked camping outside in a tent, so that was a little bait and switch on her part, too. She no longer does that, but the Lord had given me a vision when I was a camp counselor at 20. And so I had grown up in a low income family, Kid raising a kid, Japanese American family in a small town that was all black and white in Decatur, Alabama. And so we had moved to Nashville. My mom had to start over quite a bit. She went through several divorces. And so when I moved to Nashville, it's when I got introduced to the church, and I really had no exposure, you know, to the church growing up, started going as a 15 and 16 year old, and there was a pastor there that just loved me unconditionally, and I had really never experienced that type of love before. And there was nothing special about this church camp that I went to, other than the fact that it got me out of my existing environment, you know, got me into a place where I didn't have to worry about whether or not my mom was coming home, if somebody was coming home with her, if she had been drinking, if she was angry. I mean, it just kind of eliminated that for me, and just put me in this really just loving and encouraging atmosphere where it allowed me to look at my pastor who had kind of built a relationship with over the past year and a half. And just say, you know, Mac, you know, what is so different about you? You know, I keep screwing up, and you just keep holding your arms out, you know, it's like, what is that? It's uncomfortable, you know. And Max, I'm just trying to love you like Jesus loves you, and he had just done that so consistently through me being such a knucklehead, you know, I really wanted to be able to love like that. And thinking about my relationship with my mom and just my family, I really want to be able to forgive like that as well. And so I made a profession of faith at 16 at this church camp, you know, and came back home, and things were not, you know, wildly different, you know, all that same sin and temptation different, but was still waiting for me, and it kind of felt like, Man, The Lord is like, one more person, I'm disappointing, you know, not really measuring up. And in so many ways, you know, at our high school, it kind of became, you know, the popular thing to do to become a Christian. It's almost like a lower revival had broken out at Hillwood high school, you know, back in the late 80s. But the sad part was nobody was really walking with us and discipling us. And so all the secondary and tertiary theological issues that you've ever seen divide a church. I mean, they were dividing our friendships, because it kind of turned into Debate Club. And I never want to debate with this guy, but it felt like, you know, man, this is the closest thing to debate club I've ever been in, yeah, and we're more concerned about who is right, you know, about a certain, you know, theological stance, than we really worry about loving one another. And that really impacted, you know, the vision for barefoot many years later. And so when I look back on that, it was just so, you know, formative for me. But fast forward, you know, to when I was 20, I got to be a camp counselor, and I kind of reconnected with a friend in Decatur, Alabama, and he had grown up in the same kind of low income apartment complex with me, but his mom had married somebody from the other side of the tracks, and so he started going to camp for a month, okay? And I was like, Sean, you. Then Your mom must really hate you.

     

    Annalee Cate  10:03

    You being tortured, yeah.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  10:04

    I mean, how many rocks can you possibly move, you know? I mean, four weeks of like, hard labor, you know, and he would come back, like, tell me all these stories. And so he knew I didn't really have anywhere to go after my sophomore year of college. And he's like, hey, you know, we need a tennis instructor. And so he kind of like, brought me in, you know, through the back door, because most of the staff were home grown, but their tennis guy had to go to summer school in the 11th hour. So here I here I go, you know, walking into this experience, you know, honestly thinking, you know, man, God, you have a sense of humor. You're going to have me go to this really affluent camp with a bunch of Montgomery Bell Academy kids and teach them how to play tennis, you know, these, these kids are gonna hate me. I can have anything in common with these kids, you know. And I get to this camp, and they're like, actually, we got somebody else that can do tennis. We would like you to do basketball and weight lifting. And I'm like, you see me, right? The Asian gene is strong, you know, like, five foot, 610, pounds at the time this camp goes through high school. I'm just imagining these guys, like, repping me out on the bench, you know? And I'm just like, Yes, sir. I mean, what am I gonna say? But then the kicker was, we also want you to be a counselor and in charge of one of the cabins. And I just immediately looked at the camp director, and I was like, Did y'all do a background check, unlike me, and who else you know you want to be responsible for people's lives. And like, Oh, don't worry about it. You know, we'll give you a 15 year old counselor in training named Forrest. He grew up here. You guys are going to be great. And I'm just thinking somebody's going to die. Yeah. And so that that summer, you know, literally changed my life, because spiritually, I'd hit rock bottom at the time, I had met my biological father for the first time when I was 18 at my high school graduation, and he was a drug addict, and he had went to Vietnam. He was a medic. You know, marijuana was just the classic gateway drug for him. And when I turned 18, my mom said, you know, hey, you're a man now, you know. And of course, I didn't feel any different than I did the day before, but on my birthday, literally, you know, in 1990 she gave me a piece of paper, and I opened it up, and it had this New York address. And so my mom had kidnapped me from my father and his side of the family who had legal custody of me when I was an infant. Oh my gosh. And so she had started over in Alabama and left Long Island where I was born. And so for 17 years, you know, I heard bits and pieces and little stories, but I honestly didn't know anybody with the last name of Rhodes. And so on my 18th birthday, I was going to change my last name to her last name to honor her father, who had passed away two years prior, but to also just stop explaining to people why my mom and I had different it's like, no, I'm not adopted. I'm not a foster. I mean, just all those narratives were always being asked of me by teachers and friends, and it was just frustrating. And so that piece of paper changes everything, right? You know? And I kind of sit on this phone number thinking it's 17 years old. There's no way you know this number even works. And lo and behold, I get the number to dial these digits, and this guy with a really thick, Long Island accent picks up the telephone. And I'm just like, Tommy Rhodes, I'm looking for Robert Rhodes. I think I may be his son. And the first thing out of his mouth was, I tried to find you until you were nine, and it just like, man just hit me right in the heart. Because, you know, the story that was playing in my head was, you know, you didn't want me. You never wanted me. Certainly, you never tried to find me. And so just, that's that first phrase, you know, just changed everything. And so 30 minutes into our phone conversation, I mean, we're talking about music and sports and girls and just things I'd never talked to my mom about. You know, my mom and I just had a really tough relationship growing up because we were just so close in age, and I didn't understand, you know, what it was like to raise a kid as a teenager. You know, through your 20s, I can't imagine, still, even as a father today, how she did it. I mean, she really was like a Street Fighter. What she did to like, protect me was unbelievable. But the thing my dad and I talked about that really stuck with me was he was so honest about his drug addiction, and I had grown up surrounded by addicts, and any time I asked, you just got shut down. You just weren't allowed to go there. And so I really started modeling their behavior as a 1011, 12 year old, you know, just kind of in the privacy of our house. It wasn't to be cool. It was just to, like, figure out what this meant, and how do you be a man, and how do you be there for your mom, and how do you grow up? It was just so hard, struggling with that. And my dad was like giving me insights into how my mom was hard wired just by being so transparent and vulnerable about his drug addiction. And so he had admitted, you know, that my mom had made the right decision, and he also admitted that he had lost a second family, and I had three half brothers as well, that he was no longer in relationship. With due to his drug addiction, and that just meant so much to me. But to make a long story short, I got to spend the summer of my freshman year of college in Long Island with him, and I brought a buddy with me from Nashville, and we had some really sweet moments on if you guys have seen Field of Dreams, of course, dad asked me, you know, what's your favorite movie? And I'm just like, man, Field of Dreams. I just love baseball, you know, collected baseball cards. You know, growing up, could just lose myself and statistics and just dreaming of being a ball player one day. And of course, he was like, that's my favorite movie, too. And then the kicker was he looked at me and he's like, do you want to have a catch? And I don't know if y'all remember, you know that part of the movie. But, I mean, I was just immediately, just like, bawling, you know. And he found a couple of mitts, you know, from his sons, and we went out in the in the street, in front of the house, and had our first and only catch, oh, my God. And I mean, I just, I wouldn't trade that for anything. It's like, I can still, like, hear the scenes, you know, whizzing through the air, and I can feel the ball hitting my mitt, and both of us were just like taking a step back with every throw, because we were just both crying so hard,

     

    Spencer  16:07

    You have to appreciate how unbelievably rare that type of reuniting moment is. I mean, when you look at the statistics of people that are estranged from one or both of their parents, usually, conventional wisdom is that that reuniting, if it happens at all, could be ill advised, but is almost certainly going to go poorly. How did you go into that situation? Emotionally. Were you ready for any outcome? I mean, just walk, walk me.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  16:47

    I was terrified, yeah. I mean, I was so insecure growing up, because there was so much chaos, yeah, in our home, I had to convince a friend to go with me, you know, I was just, I was like, man, would somebody please, you know, of course. And so I go up there with a buddy, and you know my expectation, you know, just through phone calls and letters and you come to my high school graduation, that was the only time I'd seen him, you know, was man, this is going to be great. I mean, God has, like, brought my biological father back into my life. I know how rare it is. I took sociology in high school, I was told I was a statistic, yeah, you know. And unpack those statistics with my mom, you know. So I just thought, man, God is just doing something awesome in my life. And I just felt so grateful. And so that was really the first six weeks of my summer, you know, leading up to this catch, you know. And of course, everybody in Long Island thought we were the two biggest rednecks. And I'm like, Man, you guys don't know redneck, you know. And so we were on the joke wheel all summer, but I thought it was great. And I mean, the kicker was, my dad's brother had married into this Italian family that owned a dry ice company in Jamaica, New York. And so we start working for the family business, wow. And we're going to Jamaica at six o'clock at night, jumping in a truck and going to La Guardia and JFK and breaking down pallets of fish and parts of the airport. I didn't even know it existed, and then driving to Fulton Street fish market, you know, at 233 o'clock in the morning. And, of course, I didn't know there were special boxes, you know. I didn't understand, you know, cash trading. I mean, I didn't understand people being shot. I was just like, What is going on? You know? So, yeah, there were nights, you know, you get lost in Chinatown and getting wrecks, and police officers would just laugh at you and tell you to move along. You know, you're just in this surreal world. But all of it was kind of just balanced out by like, Man, I get to go home and hang out with my dad. You know, how cool is that? Yeah, but by the end of the summer, I'd come home one day my buddy didn't go to work with me, and I catch them using together, and it was just double betrayal. And so I just, I felt like I had this relationship with my father, who I just felt so close to, and his family, who I was getting to know. And it just felt like, Man, I can't believe anything anymore, your father was using his friends, yeah. And, of course, my father, I mean, the stipulation was, you know, you got to clean yourself up, yeah, before I come to New York. And so over that year of me getting to know him, yeah, I felt like that's what God was doing. He was using me to impact my dad, you know, to get him clean and sober, and that's what he told me was happening, yeah. And so it was just, it was heartbreaking to walk into the house and just seeing them getting high together.

     

    Spencer  19:40

    What did your friend have to say?

     

    Tommy Rhodes  19:41

    I mean, not a whole lot, because I stuck him on a Greyhound bus and was just furious. And it was at that point in time that I told my dad. I was like, you know, Dad, until you can actually do what you say. You know, we're done, you know, I just I can't have another relationship built, you know, on lies and. Deceit, yeah, and so we kind of ended things there, and that's ultimately what led me to being a camp counselor that following summer, because I really didn't know where to go or what to do, I'd move back to Alabama and transfer to the University of Alabama at Birmingham to be close to my Japanese grandmother. That was the family that I had left that felt like I had connection with and support. And that summer, you know, as all these affluent kids kind of came into camp, you know, once I got to sit down with them and hear their stories, man, I realized it just because they grew up rich, you know, didn't mean they hadn't been through divorce, alcoholism and drug addiction and verbal abuse. And, you know, the Lord really started rebuilding my faith in him that summer, because he was using those kind of painful gifts, you know, in my life, you know, to speak truth and encouragement and to these young boys. And this is back in 92 and we still wrote letters, you know, and I'll never forget, after that two week session of camp, what I didn't know was that the camp kind of gaged how you were doing as a counselor by how much mail you got it so we would get in our staff meetings, and with all these like veterans that had grown up at this camp, and my name keeps getting called, and it's almost embarrassing, like, how much my name is being called, I'm just like, who's writing me letters, you know? And it's all these campers and these moms that kind of scared the crap out of me when they knock off their kids sending me care packages and they're like, What are you doing that we're not doing you like sliding them candy bars at night. What's going on in your cabin over their roads? Dry Ice ship.

     

    Spencer  21:36

    Okay, all right.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  21:39

    So, I mean, that was, I mean, for somebody as insecure as I was at that point in my life, that just meant the world to me. And I've still got, that's what I should have brought today. I've still got the box of letters, you know, from these kids, you know, at my house, and as the boys got older throughout the course of the summer, yeah, I just kept seeing myself in them, and I couldn't help but ask the question, like, God. I mean, where was this when I was eight or 10 or 12? Yeah, I just, I can't imagine what it would have meant for just some college guy to, like, want to play basketball with me, or, you know, want to sit down and have a conversation and just listen to me. I mean, it would have changed so many of the bad decisions I was making, you know, in the privacy of my home, in my mind. And so my mom, of course, she didn't know about all this. I mean, I kept this as a secret from her. She didn't know all the things I was addicted to as a young child. But I did get the courage to call her at the end of the summer, and I was just like, Mom, I mean, you knew Sean, you know, started going to this camp. You knew I didn't have any male role models, you know? Why didn't you send me? And she said, Tommy, have you asked them how much it cost? And I'll just, I'll never forget that I was standing at a phone booth at a phone booth at this camp, you know, and I'm just like, dumbfounded. I'm like, this is all about money and access, yeah. And I did. I went and asked, and it was kind of like, gosh, you could buy a car, you know, or you could go to summer camp for a month, you know. I couldn't believe how expensive it was. And this was towards the end of the summer, of course. And I used to, you know, jog the same route, you know, around this camp every day, and I was just so angry, because I felt like it was just so unfair. And so I go on this run, and I just fight the Holy Spirit with saying, Tommy, you're right. It is unfair, so why don't you do something about it? And I'm literally jogging past buildings and boats and horses. All I see are dollar signs. And I'm like, Lord, how would a kid like me, who comes from nothing ever like create something like this, you know, for kids like myself. And it was just it was beyond me at the age of 20, and so I kind of compartmentalized it, and that's just how immature I was in my faith, you know, at this point in my life, and I just felt like, Okay, God, you know, maybe one day I'll get back to you, you know. So let me go cure cancer, you know, and make a lot of money and maybe retire early at 40 or 50, and then go do this thing you asked me to do. And I feel like so many of us do that sure, you know, on our faith walk. And fast forward back to this moment, you know, as a newlywed. This was seven years later, and I had majored in biology and chemistry and minored in math and physics and got a master's in microbiology, and was three years into my PhD at Vanderbilt. And if somebody would have known me at that point in my life, they'd have been like, man, Tommy is. He is so focused. He is. He's so driven. He can kind of sign his ticket, you know. And it was, don't get me wrong, it was so cool to be on the cutting edge of science at Vanderbilt, and just in that environment, because it was so diverse, I love that first and foremost. I mean, there's MD PhDs, you know, just descending on Vanderbilt from all over the world, and you're getting to work with them and to build relationships with them. And I love that part of it, and then having the success and the publications. And I mean, that was wonderful. Two, but at the end of the day, I was usually staring out of the sixth floor of medical research building three, before the Children's Hospital was built, wondering, What am I doing? Yeah, you know, and everybody's telling me I'm on the fast track. And I just feel this emptiness, you know, on the inside. And again, I mean, I was just a spiritual infant, and I just feel like it goes back to obedience. And unfortunately, there was somebody in my life that loved the Lord and loved me enough at that point that had that conversation with me, and they really challenged me, and they were just like, So Tommy, you like, light up when you're talking about this thing you're going to do one day, you know. And then I see the pain and the emptiness that you're feeling coming here every day, you know, let's talk about that. And at the end of the day, it was all about obedience. Man, I didn't know anything about business, you know. I didn't know anything about for profit or non profit, you know. I just thought, I've got to make a lot of money to be able to, like, go start this thing.

     

    Spencer  25:58

    Yeah, what a calling. I mean, I I hear that, and, you know, part of me wonders what changed, you know, probably $100,000 plus in debt. I mean, PhD, going through all of that and all of the experience, it feels like if you were going to take that plunge, you might have taken that plunge before going through all of the suffering to get to the point where you were at. Was it really that conversation that changed? Because I'm just, I feel like it would take a burning bush in order to, you know, like I was on the way to the medical building and, you know, I mean, the Bucha just caught on fire and started talking to me. I mean, it helped me walk through that. Because that had to be a level of conviction that is difficult for me to wrap my head around.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  26:44

    Well, my mom thought I did see a burning bush, not a believer, but Vanderbilt was actually paying me to get my PhD, and so there was no debt involved. And she was like, You were seriously walking away. It was like a quarter million dollar scholarship at the time, and you're gonna sell your possessions and go buy a farm. You know, it's like, yeah, she thought something, yeah. She thought I'd lost it, honestly. But no, for me, it really was Spencer just, you know, what is that? Seven, eight years of higher education, and I was just, I was running myself into the ground. I mean, I was taking as a triple major initially, so I'm taking 18 to 24 hours of science a semester while playing a college sport. Which college sport, tennis, okay, yeah. And I mean, then I, then I did a master's in three semesters, you know, and then I go right into Vanderbilt, and I'm just so burned out. Yeah, and so, I mean, it really, it didn't just happen overnight. It was just finally, like pausing long enough and having somebody just speak truth into my life and just calling me out on my lack of obedience. And something just sparked in that moment.

     

    Spencer  27:56

    Who was that person again?

     

    Tommy Rhodes  27:57

    Her name is Lisa Ann Parker, okay, she actually finished her PhD.

     

    Spencer  28:02

    The dream, take your scholarship.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  28:04

    Well, the great thing that she said that I remember, and I doubt she even remembers this, but she was like, Tommy, did you pray about becoming a scientist at Vanderbilt? Because I did, and I'm just like, No, you know, when they offer you a scholarship, you just kind of say, Yes, right? She's like, No, you know, I spent a lot of time in prayer before signing on the dotted line. It sounds like you just kind of jumped at it. I was like, Yeah, that's exactly what I did. You know, Mom told me I was nuts to even consider any other options. You know, it's like, if Vanderbilt gives you a full scholarship for PhD, you just gotta go, yeah. So, I mean, that's really where my head was. And so, I mean, I had been kind of, you know, struggling with this feeling of burnout and just unfulfillment, you know, for a number of years, you know, quite frankly, and it just really kind of reared its ugly head, you know, at Vandy when I'd gotten through my coursework and really gotten into my dissertation. I mean, it just felt like I was grinding, you know, every day. And I think getting married, you know, that point in my life too. And just kind of like sharing those dreams and the vision that God gave me, you know, with my wife and, you know, just kind of bringing being brought back into focus, you know, at that time as well. And really the other thing, thinking about it, that happened during this point in time, I had a friend that was in law school at U of L who had stumbled on barren River Lake, you know, hour and 15 minutes north of Nashville. And I had never heard of this lake, and I had priced Tim's Ford and center Hill, center hill back in the day, just thinking, if you're going to build a camp, it's got to be on a body of water, yeah. And so I kind of had an idea of how much money I needed to save to start a summer camp. I didn't know you could build your own Lake. Nobody told me that I'd been much more affordable, yeah. But when he told me about Baron River Lake, he was like, hey, you know, maybe we buy some lots together. And I'm like, What do I can do with a lake lot? But when I was at Vandy, you know, he taught, talked me into. Going in with him. I'm buying two Lake lots up there, $25,000 for both lots. They were an acre a piece. They both already had a boat slip right on the heart of the lake. You know, I'm thinking that the lake is polluted because I'm like, this doesn't sound right, but I go up there and it's so close to Nashville, I'm like, Man, this is amazing. I don't have $12,500 but good luck. And he's like, Oh, you own a car, right? And I was like, Well, yeah. He's like, see if you can get a loan against your car. Somebody I know, Dave Ramsey would hate that. But first American bank thought it was a great idea to give a graduate student a $12,500 loan against their car. And so I was, in, What car did you drive? Oh, I think it was a old Jeep Cherokee at the time. Yeah, it was my graduation present, you know, from undergrad.

     

    Annalee Cate  30:49

    Wait, was this property bought before or after you got married? Before I got married? Okay, all right, yeah. So I'm still in her head space of just the hits beyond coming of how stressful this season.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  30:59

    Now we go up to these lots because we couldn't afford to build anything, right? Afford to build anything, right? And we would just pitch a tent. This is what I thought she loved. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, she's like, this is great. And we were just go swimming off the boat slips. And that was really, you know, when I'm kind of, like, going through all these struggles at Vandy, when God said, Hey, this is the place. This is where it is. And I was like, Okay, God, I get it. This is close to Nashville, the community I want to impact. It's much more affordable than Senator Hill and Tim's Ford. Let me get back to you on the time, you know, but after Elaine and I going up there and camping out a few times, it just felt like God was saying, this is also the time. And so that was all that was kind of happening in the background, you know of our courtship and marriage and everything that was going on in Vanderbilt.

     

    Spencer  31:45

    Tommy, I feel like it's necessary in the telling of your story is that I want to spend some time talking about the formation of barefoot Republic as it relates to your story of having gone through intense brokenness. It really puts into focus what barefoot Republic is trying to accomplish. But before getting to that point, one question that I think everybody would have, I would have, is about hearing from the Lord that kind of several points throughout the narrative. Say I heard from the Lord. I felt compelled in this way. And that's a foreign concept for a lot of people. Of just, you know, are you like waking up and audibly hearing from the Lord? I mean, can you walk us through what you mean by feeling that you're hearing from the Lord on something, because I just don't that's hard to wrap my head around.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  32:44

    Now, I love that question. Spencer and our campers ask that question a lot, and it's a hard one to answer, but I'm a firm believer that God speaks through his people, and so for me, when I look back on my life, and you know, I just, I don't believe in coincidence. I truly believe in Providence. And I feel like God, just like puts a Lisa Ann Parker right there in your life, you know, a class of, I don't know what it was, you know, 5060, people, and she was this plutonic friend that I just kind of connected with. Found out she was a believer, you know. And she's speaking into my life. And so I can go back, you know, all the way back to when I met Matt Cana, and God has just like, placed these amazing people in my life that I'm like, veering off track, and they're just like, hey buddy, what about this? You know, have you thought about this decision? Have you prayed about this? And so for me, in my life, that's where I feel like God has just really spoken to me. And so whenever I say that, it usually is just one of those incredible people that he just kind of like raises up and just plops right in front of me because I'm stubborn. It's like, it's got to be a burning bush, almost, yeah, yes, I mean, and it's just it was so rare to find anybody, and this is no knock on Vanderbilt, I just didn't find a lot of people that love Jesus at Vanderbilt. You know, in this MD, PhD environment, I had a lot of lot of conversations across the lab bench with people that didn't know Jesus, and they were wonderful conversations. But to find this one person you know who completely course corrected me, is incredible. And to think that she's a monthly donor, you know, even to this day, you know, is amazing. You know, to think here we are, 25 years later, and she's still just like sowing seed, you know, from many states away. And so that's what I mean when I say, God, you know, really spoke to me. It's usually, there's other ways, certainly in spending quiet time reflecting on his word, that I feel God's presence and His Spirit going on runs, you know, exercising. You know, there's been other times where I feel like man, the Holy Spirit is really kind of confirming, you know, what maybe somebody else has already shared, or what I was already. Journaling about or praying about, but for me, the obvious one is, when you just have this conversation, you meet somebody, I mean, you're much like that, even in my own life, you know, meeting you, it's just been another god story, you know, over the past two years through C 12, and it's just like, Man, this guy is amazing. I can't even believe he's talking to me. He he went to Montgomery Bell Academy. Never had a friend from NBA.

     

    Spencer  35:25

    I like how you say that you believe in coincidence, not coincidence. Let me say it this way. I like how you say that you believe in Providence, not coincidence. I think that's a compelling lens into how each of us can look in our own lives, and try to find that still small whisper, or that evidence of the Lord's hand moving in ways that's like. I don't understand everything that's happening here, but I can see that there's something here different, and it just seems like the boldness that you had. If maybe it's boldness, maybe it's recklessness, maybe it's just sheer I don't have any willpower to go forward in this direction any further, whatever you call it. You went all in on it. And what an amazing testimony. I can't even wrap my head around all of the story that you just gave us. So I want to get into barefoot Republic. But Anna Lee, I know you probably have got to be give us a round out question before we go into barefoot Republic. Yeah.

     

    Annalee Cate  36:35

    I mean, it's just, it is so many thoughts. But I think, you know, as you think about going through all that, and we've talked about this before, and obviously you have, you know, the heart and the spirit of an entrepreneur too, to go build this. One of the things that I see in your journey is that grittiness that we've talked about so many times with entrepreneurs, is that, you know, it's, it's getting hit with, with challenge and having that grit to push through it. And like I could, I could foresee showing up to the camp and getting a different job than you expected, and this task of all these campers as being a real moment of, Can I do this? And how am I going to push through this? And how am I going to do this? But you've you rose to those occasions as they does, as they appeared. So when you think about, actually, the beginnings of barefoot, you've been through all this, you make the decision, okay, I'm gonna transition now and abandon PhD, yard sale, all these things. There had to be a lot of uncertainty, but kind of a moment of grit. What was that first step that you took when you were like, I'm gonna commit to making this move. What was step one?

     

    Tommy Rhodes  37:45

    Wow. Step one. I mean, my mom was, again, shocked that even consider this. And she said, you know, if you're gonna start a business, son, you know you're gonna need some seed money. Okay? And so I was like, how much seed money are we talking about mom? And she's like, Well, have you put together a business plan? And she knew she had me. I was like, what exactly is a business plan? You know? And she was in healthcare. She had somehow got an accounting degree with me on her hip, and she had kind of risen from low income, you know, single mom imagined a Japanese woman kind of like rising the corporate ladder of HCA, wow. You know, back in the 70s and 80s, that was my mom, wow, you know.

     

    Annalee Cate  38:26

    So she knew she had a pioneer in her in her time and in her respect, absolutely, yeah.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  38:30

    So she had me in the corner, and I was like, Okay, I will put together a business plan. But that was, like, that first test. And so I was like, Do you have a model? You know? So she gave me a model. And so I had, like, priced the camp down to the fork, and I was so excited about this business plan I put together. And so we get together, and I present it to my mom, and I'm just, you know, flipping through the legal pad that I had, you know. And she just, like, stops me, and she looks at me, and she was like, kind of laughing. I was like, Mom, this is, like, my heart and soul that I've, like, poured into this for like, weeks. I mean, what is so funny? And she's like, Tommy, do y'all not use Microsoft excel at Vanderbilt, yes, to analyze statistics, you know? And she had seen that I'd like, really, like, put the work into it. So she's like, Okay, well, you know, it says, right here, you're gonna need about $25,000 in seed money, you know, to buy this land. You know, that's your next step. And again, I'm just like, there's another roadblock, you know, Lane, and I've got like, $500 we're living paycheck to paycheck. And that's when we had the yard sales. And, you know, the yard sales led to about $2,000 which wasn't quite 25,000 little short, yeah. And I'm like, Oh my goodness. I mean, what are we going to do? And we'd found this farm, and you know, that was how much we need to put down on it. Is that goes back to the sports cards, you know. And I had this sports card collection that started when. I was eight, what? And so I could lose myself, you know, in this sports car collection, like I mentioned earlier. I mean, it was just like my refuge, you know, if mom didn't come home, or there was whatever going on in the house, I mean, I would just like, go back to my bedroom and just like, you know, build sets, you know, memorize statistics. And so eBay comes along. You know, in 99 when all this is going down, are you?

     

    Annalee Cate  40:23

    I have literally chose, are you kidding me? It's yours. It's your card collection that you started at eight as refuge, yeah, right at the time that eBay comes out, and that's how you acquire the seed money. Is this?

     

    Tommy Rhodes  40:37

    I've got about $20,000 for my sports cards, and just started listing the good ones on eBay. And so it was just, it was so redemptive to think, man, I remember all the bicycle rides through the streets of Decatur going places I never should have went with binders under my arms on a real janky banana seat bicycle, but it's gonna make it there, just to, like, get that rock guru card, you know, in a trade, you know, and to think that God had a plan, you know, for those cards, even when I was eight and nine, yeah, out there just hustling.

     

    Spencer  41:10

    Did you know what they were worth, or was that?

     

    Tommy Rhodes  41:12

    I had an idea. Yeah, definitely had an idea. Didn't necessarily know exactly how much, but I had a century safe. There were jokes about the century. Everywhere I went, I had this little century safe from whatever store. And everybody's like, Oh, what do you got in there? Man, like, jewels, you know, stock certificates. I'm like, baseball cards.

     

    Spencer  41:33

    Sure

     

    Tommy Rhodes  41:35

    They’re just like, seriously, you're like, guarding your baseball card collection and hauling this thing around with you to undergrad and grad school and up to New York. And it's just like, I love these things, you know? And so the same peace and comfort I just always got out of these sports cards, wow. And so, I mean, people are just like, was it hard? And I'm like, No, it was just cool to think that God could use, like, these little pieces of cardboard to, like, see, you know, this kingdom work that would ultimately impact all these kids.

     

    Spencer  42:07

    Did you have discipline through the years that this was, like, the 15th time that you felt compelled to sell the cards or never considered it was just, wow, yeah.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  42:17

    I was kind of hoping that wouldn't be God's plan, yeah. But after the yard sales, it was like, Okay, we're going to dig a little bit deeper here. When it says, sell all of your possessions, I think he meant all of your possessions.

     

    Annalee Cate  42:32

    That’s beautiful, too. I think that's, that's raw to say, like I was really hoping this wasn't going to be your I was hoping, but to have again, that that grit, but the strength of of that message, to be willing to go to that level with it, is that's incredible.

     

    Spencer  42:47

    What a relationship with your new wife.

     

    Annalee Cate  42:50

    I'm telling you, I can't wait to meet her, because, yeah, like,

     

    Spencer  42:54

    Okay, I'm just trying to imagine how this conversation would go with Carly. To say, all right, Carly, we need to raise some money, I feel really led in what we're going to do. So one pathway is we're going to sell everything that we own, possessions and all in the yard, but I'm going to keep my baseball cards, and then the way that this unfolds is okay, well, we have sold everything that we needed to sell, but it wasn't enough, so I'm gonna now sell my baseball cards. I just can't even imagine how that conversation would go. Can What was that like to say the baseball cards are gonna be held in reserve. Let's sell all our possessions first. I know Carly would say the baseball cards, if we're selling anything, those are going first. So what was that conversation like?

     

    Tommy Rhodes  43:42

    Now, I have to give it to lane, and that's just, I mean, honestly, that's one more example of just this incredible angel that God just dropped into my life, that was just completely in love with him. And so I just, I felt like she was so supportive of me and whatever God was calling me to, and that just that felt so good, because there was just so much kind of wrapped up in this whole Vanderbilt PhD track, right? And here's somebody that's just like, I just love whoever God has called you to be. And so that was, to me, that was just so moving, you know, at that point, to feel the support and to see her rolling up her sleeves and, like, getting out there and putting on two, you know, yard sales right there with me. And honestly, I mean, I don't think lane, you know, grew up in mobile, doing a whole lot of hard labor, but when we acquired this farm, I mean, she used to go up there on weekends with me. And the first project was to build, you know, just a standard four board fence, you know, across the front of the property. The only problem was, there's no running water there, you know. And so, unfortunately for lane, my grandfather taught me how to build a fence, and so you're supposed to dig the holes 36 inches, and you're supposed to pour 24 inches a. Concrete, you know. And so we're like, trying to, like, take this five gallon jug down to the cattle pond, you know, to, like, scoop up the water, get back to the front of the farm so we can hand mix the concrete, you know, to build just hundreds of feet of fence and laners is out there getting it. Nobody told me you could just pour the concrete in the hole and wait for it to rain. I'm just like, Thanks, Papa. Yeah. I mean, it was just crazy. But, I mean, that was my wife, and it just felt incredible. You know, as you kind of intimated, to have her behind you 110%

     

    Spencer  45:40

    Wow, there's, I feel like there has to be a movie about this, Tommy. I mean, that's an unbelievable story. I want to make sure that we get to spend some time about barefoot. So let's spend a little bit of time there. And just one overarching theme that you've talked about from the start of barefoot is its emphasis on diversity and serving those that clearly you've got a price sensitivity in what you do as well. So talk to me about the mission of diversity and the mission of accessibility and affordability, and then I'll have some more questions.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  46:22

    I mean, well, as I shared, obviously, I grew up in a setting where I couldn't afford camp, and so first and foremost was, just prior to prioritizing those low income kids like myself, almost 35% of our kids don't have fathers, you know. And so every time we can get a camper to come who grew up like me, it is such a blessing to be able to say yes to those families. But as I shared, you know, as I got into the Word of God as a very young believer, you know, at 1617, years old, you know, what I noticed about Jesus that was so attractive was he was all about tearing down walls and bringing people together. And I couldn't necessarily articulate it, but I tried so hard, you know, in my youth group and with my pastor, I remember we used to go visit families every Tuesday at our church, and I went to kind of a low to middle income, all white church, you know, out in Bellevue, and we'd only visit families that look like us? And I remember asking Mac one day, just as humbly as I could, you know, I was just like Mac, you know, how come we're only visiting families, you know, that look like like us? And of course, I'm not like some spiritual giant, selfishly, I'm just thinking about my family. And like, I wish somebody would have came and visited our family, you know. And I remember Max said, Tommy, you know, if a black couple were to walk in the front door of our church, we would love them just like we've loved you. And I didn't say this, but I was thinking it. I was like, Well, why would they walk in the front door of our church? You know, nobody here really looks like them, yeah, you know. And we're not going to visit them, you know. And I just kind of longed, you know, for that opportunity, you know, to really be a response to what Jesus prayed for in John 17, that we would be one. And so I was just to me, that was the hope of the Gospel from a very young age. I mean, just this idea that in heaven there would be every tribe, nation and tongue, like it talks about in Revelation, seven, nine, you know. And of course, Jesus, Jesus prayed that it would be, you know, on earth as it is in heaven. And it's just like man. If this can work anywhere, you know, if rich and poor, if NBA and Hill would, you know, could have a shared experience. You know, if black, white, Hispanic and refugee, if artists and athletes saved and unsaved, if we had all come together on this side of heaven, it feels like summer camp does the best job of leveling the playing field, and I still believe that to this day. Because truthfully, when the kids come there, you know, they're all judging each other based on outward appearance, just like we all do, you know. And we literally have some kids rolling up and $50,000 SUVs and pulling out three piece monogram sets of luggage and all this equipment and gear, you know. And then we've got the school bus coming in, and we've got kids that only been in our city, you know, for a few months, that are lucky to have a trash bag full of clothing. And, man, these kids, you know, very rarely are more than half the kids white. You know, we've had now 90 different ethnicities, you know, come through our camp, thanks to all of our partners, you know, throughout middle Tennessee and beyond. And you can imagine, you know, what they're feeling. It's just like, What in the world did my mom sign me up for? What am I you Pastor get me into? And that vulnerability is priceless, you know? And it's kind of like going to college, you know? It's like, you can't bring your reputation. Mission with you. I mean, nobody knows that you're the star athlete, you know, but nobody knows that you're really the misfit like me, yeah, you know. You're just like, yeah, how do you fit in here? And so it's a wonderful opportunity. And that's the whole idea of being barefoot. We get asked that a lot, like when the world is barefoot Republic. Mean, you know, it's like most camps in America that we studied, you know, they divide the kids into tribes, and we had a Native American family that were good friends when we started this camp. And we're just like, this is not going to work. We can't have a bunch of random tribes and then assign their kids to the wrong tribe. That's not a good welcome to this diversity experiment, you know. And so we love the idea of Republic. It's just like you come in and you form this new identity with your peers that look different from you, but you kind of rally around this new identity throughout the course of the week. I mean, you're in the same cabin together. You're competing together, you know, you're doing team building exercises together. You're worshiping and eating together, you know, and it's just like those pure relationships. I mean, they take off in the cabins, but in the same sense, you know, it's amazing to see these kids that think they have nothing in common get into the recording studio, you know, and it's just like, wow, you know, you don't even speak English, but you speak my language. You know, better than my friends and family speak my language. I've never met somebody as passionate about programming beats as you and so we knew we kind of had something with Republic, but we didn't really know what to put with it. But we love this idea, this spiritual posture of like, coming into this really uncomfortable experience barefoot. And it's like, when you're barefoot, it's like, if all you can see is somebody's feet. I mean, you don't know if they're a prince or a popper, you know. And there's just so much symbolism, you know, we're kind of inviting these kids into this experience. And it's just this, you know, this idea of, you know, our brokenness or vulnerability, you know, it's a sign of our humanity, our poverty. There's just so much symbolism that goes with this idea of being barefoot, and so that's really what we're inviting families and kids into.

     

    Annalee Cate  52:06

    So incredible I want to talk about intentionally when you guys built this model, because you know, we'll want So Mama, this is number five. So, right. So delicious. Thank you. So I know when it comes to kids, one of the beautiful things about kids, like we were talking about, is they're unfiltered. They, you know, are the most honest, the most you know, direct kind of kids will say the darkest things. You just don't know what you're going to get when you're dealing with kids, they're uncorrupted by all the political correctness and all the things that you know we grow into. So when you take all of these kids and you put them in this environment of two main questions. You know, piece number one is, kind of, how did you craft the model for what was going to create this conducive, inclusive, you know, family feel. And then two, what intentional things are you guys doing right out of the gate, to take these kids that get off a bus with monogram luggage versus a trash bag, and not, you know, see some of the things that we could see in the real world and go, How do we avoid this? How do we prevent this?

     

    Tommy Rhodes  53:16

    Yeah, love those questions. We could not find a camp model. We didn't knock on all 8500 doors in 99 but we tried really hard. And we really thought, with half of those camps being Christ centered, and the way the demographics were exponentially changing in our country, that somebody be really excited, you know, about this opportunity. And it just felt like most camps kind of felt like it was a problem, wow. And a lot of camps, you know, they look like the church. I mean, it's pretty homogenous, wow. And so we were like, wow, you know, we spent, like I said, almost two and a half years trying to find a model. And the cool thing again, you know, Providence. We come back to Franklin, Tennessee, and we learn about strong tower Bible Church, and at the time, a young pastor named Chris Williamson was pastoring this church that a PCA congregation had planted Christ community. But strong tower was not a PCA church. It was an interdenominational church, but Christ community believed enough in Chris that they wanted to financially support this ministry, and it was just what I imagined as a summer camp. And it was so cool to think, man, God, you just put that right here in my backyard. I'm like, traveling all over the place, and here's this church. And so I get to know Pastor Chris. And Pastor Chris is like, Tommy, have you ever heard of New Hope Academy? And I was like, No, sir. He's like, You need to meet their founders. And so Paige and Dan Pitts, another long time family from Middle Tennessee had planted a school about five years earlier called New Hope in Franklin. And I mean, I got on their website and the mission was like, spot on. And so again, it's like, you got to hit me with a two by four. Sometimes I'm like, I'm. Go on all these places, and right here in Franklin, there's a nucleus of families who are already excited about this. It's not a summer camp, but it's a church and it's a school. And so we meet with both of these leadership teams, and we're just asking the question, you know, what would your church look like as a summer camp? What would your school look like as a summer camp? And so we gleaned so much, you know, from just the four or five years, you know, of really, like, tough soil that they had, like tilled, yeah. And so we were the benefactors of that, you know, to this day, you know, because they're both still going strong as well in our community. And so that, that was the first step. And honestly, you know, we had a very young board, you know, when we started. I mean, the board's kind of always reflected my age. And so, you know, 25 years ago, we're a bunch of, like, 2020 somethings who didn't have two pennies to rub together. But man, we were passionate. We like the one, like 40 year old guy, you know, who we all thought was, like Abraham. So Abraham comes to me one day, and he's like, son, I love you, but you got tunnel vision. And I'm like, that's a good thing, right? And he's like, No. And I was like, What do you mean, John? And John's like, you're going up to this piece of land every chance you get, trying to build this camp in your own strength, you know, taking your wife and whoever go with you to go mix concrete from the cattle pond. You know, instead of us focusing on trying to, like, build this camp on this land, which is a blessing, let's go over here for a season, and let's start focusing on kids. So part two of your question, I mean, that's when we got serious, was like 2002 we got 135 the most diverse group of kids Nashville had ever seen, you know, at the same place, at the same time. And talk about moments. I mean, that first day of camp, I thought I am so stubborn. I had all these people tell me this was a bad idea. I had, like, Mr. Teenage America, tell me this is going to fail. We've tried it, but I'm just so stubborn and I didn't listen because everything was going wrong, like, the first six hours of the first day of camp. I mean, these kids wanted nothing to do with one another. Their racial slurs were flying, you know, we had, like, created our republics, and we let you have a buddy, you know. But after that, we asked you to trust us. You know, none of these kids were going to their assigned republics. The counselors were all volunteers. All of them wanted to go home. I was behind the cafeteria bawling my eyes out, and I remember coming out from behind the cafeteria and this little pity party I was having for myself, and the head female counselor comes running up to me Andrea. And Andrea is like, Tommy, you won't believe what's happening in the girls cabins right now. And I'm like, call the paramedics, call the police. We are shutting this down. We're gonna say this was a secretly funded project by Vanderbilt NIH and we're all going home. And, I mean, she was like, dude, step off the ledge. You know? She's like, No. Right now, all the girls have gone back to their assigned republics, and right now there's a black, white and Hispanic girl just giggling and laughing, talking through a translator, you know, on the same bunk, and I was making it super spiritual. I was like, whatever passage of scripture you shared that needs to be our theme verse we're course correcting, right? She's like, No, they're just talking about hair. Yeah. I was like, what? And she's like, Yeah. I mean, the black girl has this, you know, crazy weave, and this little white girl's always wondered if her hair could do that, you know, and the Hispanic girls wondering, do you have to wash that? I mean, they're just like, giggling and laughing, talking about hair. And so that was Monday, you know. But by the end of the week, I mean, they're talking about what they believed, you know, what they were hoping for, what they were hoping God would forgive them. I mean, it was just like, amazing to see like these kids just like, hey, I love your friend that I came with, but I'm gonna spend the rest of the week with my new friends. And so that was like, that moment of affirmation where we knew we had something. It was just so cool to see how well these kids got along with one another. But, I mean, I will say that, you know, not everything that happens at Camp is positive, sure, and that's what we don't want our parents to miss. And so, I mean, I think I'm a little biased, but, I mean, I think 99% of what happens at barefoot is incredibly positive, but, yeah, there's that 1% and even that first year, you know, some of the kids went home and they had heard some new words, you know, yeah, that's real. It is. And our case to our parents, again, in truth and love, was like, would you rather your kids encounter what they did when they get to college, yeah, for the first time, yeah? Or would you rather than being like. This incredibly Christ centered environment where people are just loving on them, and they're coming back home to you, and you're getting the opportunity to kind of unpack that 1% and for me as a parent, I mean, that has been so valuable, you know, for my two kids, to unpack the 1% I mean, I love the 99% but, man, I really lean in to like, well, let's talk about some of the other things that happened at camp. I mean, were there any times where you were sad, or any times where you felt like you weren't seen or disrespected and, man, those conversations you just can't put a price tag on, because they really don't happen when you're kind of living in this bubble. Yeah, you know that so many of us get to live in, you know, in Middle Tennessee,

     

    Spencer  1:00:42

    You bring such a unique light heartedness to diversity that only you could occupy that space. Having been raised Japanese American, then spending time in New Jersey with Italian Decatur Alabama all of these different things that you've personally experienced does give you a unique lens into diversity. So let me ask a challenging question related to diversity, because when I take a step back from diversity and think about it from a corporate perspective, the world that which I come from, the way that it's labeled, there is dei diversity, equity, inclusion, and that is often weaponized and jammed down on people that resent it tremendously. And I wonder what healing could be possible, or what you see related to people's impression of diversity, because that phrase, I think, has been co opted for more harm than good. So can you just speak to what you see as possible, related to rebranding diversity and what that means in Tennessee?

     

    Tommy Rhodes  1:02:15

    Yeah, and it is man, you hit, you hit on it. Spencer, it is so hard to do that unless the playing field is level and you can have some shared experiences. Yeah, and so, I mean, that's what we're doing. And you had asked about, gosh, do we talk about these things? Yes, you know, we really do try to celebrate these differences, and these kids want to talk about it, because they're feeling what you just articulated so well, just call it out. Yes, just call it out. And so that was part of our curriculum in the early years. I mean, we just ministered to teenagers. You know, nobody told me, when you start a summer camp, it should be like a charter school, you know, and you start with the young kids, and just hope that they grow up with you, right? It's like we were all 20 somethings again, and wanted to have these, like, deep, transformational moments, and so it was great, but it wasn't a great recruiting strategy, because it wasn't, you know, creating a very robust pipeline. But one of the exercises that we do to speak to this question is we do our version of a privilege line. And I don't know if you guys have seen the privilege line in corporate America, but we couldn't find any models of diversity. And you're right, the world is like beating this drum, right? And so we find a camp that is focused on diversity, apart from Christ. And I'm just like, Whoa, I have been through a lot of life and been the victim of a lot of prejudice, and you know, wanted to, like, hide and just stay in my little comfort zone, but God has, like, called me off the couch. How do you do that if God isn't calling you off the couch? And so we go to this camp, and they do, they called it a privilege line. And so, you know, they have all the kids form a straight line, and they're holding hands. I mean, you can YouTube this, it's out there, and they have questions based on privilege, and they have a finish line, it's going to be a race, and they extend the finish line out, and they've got $100 bill at the end of the finish line. And so they start asking questions, like, if you grew up with two parents, you know that were married, take a step forward. Well, as you can imagine, you know, about 40 to 60% of the hands break, and half of them step forward, and the other kids are standing right here. But then there's questions that are just the opposite, like, if you grew up having to depend on public transportation, take a step back, and then a lot of the kids are taking a step back. And I'm just like, watching the train, you know, come off the tracks. Like, how are they gonna end this? At the end of it, they have a race to the $100 bill, and whoever touches it first gets it. Well, as you can imagine, the kids that grew up with a lot of privilege, they're already there. They just like, reach out and touch it. Yeah, you know, then there's these. Kids that grew up at the very back, they got no shot at winning this race, right? And I just, I wish I could have sat in on the debrief, because I'm like, where do they land this plane, apart from Christ? And so we kind of adapted that. I mean, we do that exercise, and at the end of it, you know, we ask the kids to look around the field, and we train our staff to answer the questions based on the age group that we have at camp. And so if I'm there, I will jump in there and I'll respond to those questions, you know, as a 15 year old, if it's high school week, or as a 13 year old, if it's Junior High week. And of course, all the kids are like, Oh, Mr. Tommy, you know, he started barefoot. They have all these assumptions. They're like, yeah, why is he way back there? You know, that's assumption number one. But then they have all these assumptions about one another that they formed, you know, through the first four days of camp, as well as their counselors and instructors, we're all in this together. And it is so powerful to, like, look around this field, and just be like, just take it in. Are you surprised by anything you know? And then you go to your republics, and we walk them through kind of a biblically based debrief of what they just encountered. And it is so powerful. And I mean, there's there's tears, there's wounds, there's shame, but there's just as much shame for the people in the front as the people in the back. The problem is they would never know that about each other if they hadn't done that exercise at barefoot together. And it is amazing what happens in that moment. And so after the debrief, they come back together. And instead of forming a line, you know, we form a circle, and we just talk about what that circle means. And we talk about, you know, does God only have a plan, you know, for the people in the front versus the people in the back, you know? And there's some stickiness, you know, to these conversations that we're having, and it really gets at the heart that kind of what the narrative the world is driving that they're all encountering, you know, just like all of you know, for profit, America is encountering, you know, as kids, you know, in their various high schools and private schools, you know, back here in Nashville. And so that's a moment for sure. And so we do, we try to just tackle it head on, you know. And I know biblical worldview is ever used, but I mean, that was really our intention 25 years ago, was to really take this opportunity that so few of these kids are ever gonna have until they're going off to college or leaving their homes while we have them, just for five days. And it is truly remarkable what God can do in somebody's life in five days.

     

    Spencer  1:07:40

    Tom, do you find that when you're having campers sign up, that you have more difficulty finding affluent campers to attend, the kind of deepest underprivileged campers to attend somewhere in the middle? Or is it pretty balanced that you get a pretty even slice as you're assembling your group.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  1:08:01

    No, thank you for asking that. I mean, our biggest challenge through the years has definitely been the affluent kids. And if I'm honest, you know, Scotty Smith was so kind to us. I mean, he met with me years ago, and he had no business meeting with me, the founding pastor of Christ community, and he gave me an endorsement. You know, probably 24 years ago, I couldn't pronounce half the words, and he was just like, use this, you know, this is what I got, you know. So I started using that. And so a lot of the PCA churches, you know, started supporting this through local missions, which was amazing. And I kind of thought, you know, that's where our fluent kids are going to come from, you know. And I didn't realize, and this isn't a knock just on the PCA churches. We've seen this kind of across the board with our church partners, is that there aren't a lot of churches, you know, where the local missions department goes on a strategic planning retreat, you know, with the youth department and the children's ministry, and it's almost like they're existing in silos, a little bit in terms of their goals and their priorities. And so I was shocked to discover the first seven or eight years of barefoot. I mean, it was about 80 to 85% scholarship kids, and we could not find the paying kids. And I mean, honestly, I was like, do I need to re pray this? Yeah. I mean, there were so many other camps that were now creating opportunities for kids like myself, I really felt like we were supposed to be different, yeah. And I felt like a failure. Financials, exactly that level of scholarship, oh, yeah, you just have to raise more money. Exactly. It was just like, Man, I got to send out another email and hope somebody else is going to sponsor a kid. So there's that side as well. And so, man, the reality, I mean, I just, I felt like a failure. I'm like, I don't know what to do. And so that that trend continued, and we were just trying to build snowballs, you know. Instead of getting whole churches, you know, to send their youth group, we were just hoping that one family, you know, would resonate with our mission, that we would meet maybe at the table in the narthex, you know. And that's honestly where we started. And then we finally. Got some small victories. But again, part of this struggle too is that we started at 13, and what I didn't realize was, like, man, kids start going to camp at five, and the return rate nationally is 90% okay, you know? It's like, once they start going to camp, that's where they're going, you know? And so we had to get younger. And so in 2012 we finally loaded up the skate park and the recording studio and the stomp barrels, and we're like, we're gonna start partnering with churches, and we're gonna bring our program to the church. And if the church doesn't have much inherent diversity, we're gonna ask them if we can bring in the diversity for them, see if they're already working with anybody in the ministry where they would like to have a shared experience, where there's the high probability and likelihood that the relationships could continue after camp ends, because that, that's the dream, right? It's like, I want to go to a coffee shop and see Yeah, a couple of dads hanging out that met at the Father Son weekend that would would never be hanging out together, yeah? And so that was really strategic for us. In 2012 then in 2015 Amy Grant got involved, and that was possibly the most amazing thing that could ever happen to us in terms of this middle and upper income demographic. You know, once people found out that it was at Amy's farm and Amy was going to be there, and Amy was going to teach archery and Amy was going to lead worship, you know, it's just like game changer. Oh, man, all these families started showing up. We had a waiting list for the first time for affluent kids, which was a really unique problem for us to have, but it was great for us because it really, you know, gave us that opportunity for mission drift, yeah, you know, because $50,000 is sitting there in unrealized revenue on your wait list, and we needed it.

     

    Spencer  1:11:43

    It's a lot of temptation,

     

    Tommy Rhodes  1:11:44

    oh man, it's like, no, no, no. We got to stay true to our mission and just trust that the scholarships are still going to come. So that's what we did, which was 10 years ago, which was incredible. And so now there's one bucket that's left, and that is the affluent minority bucket, and that is the one that I'm still really struggling to fill, and that that has been my prayer. And I've just been like, Lord, I don't know if there's, you know, a black or Hispanic version of Amy Grant out there somewhere, but I feel like that would be amazing. So I just, I feel like somebody needs to, like, just put that credibility stamp, you know, on barefoot, like she was so gracious to do for us 10 years ago, for the upper income white community. So that's kind of my sadness. And again, just to, like, be completely transparent. You know, my kids grew up at a barefoot where if they met somebody that was a minority. I mean, the likelihood of them being on scholarship was probably about 85 to 90% and so in all honesty, you know, when we were unpacking the camp experience, you know, they just assumed that all black people were poor, that all Hispanic people were poor, that all refugees rapport, because that they weren't really meeting those kids in our Williamson County School System. The only chance to really like be in community with them was at barefoot, yeah, but that's what they were encountering time and time again. And I was just so desperately wishing they would meet, you know, one of the MD PhD families that I met at Vanderbilt who had camped for aged kids. I'm just like, where are they, you know, and so that's still my hope, is that we can somehow create a truly multi economic environment as well. Because, I mean, the racial gap is tough to bridge, but, man, the economic gap is equally, if not more, challenging, you know, for some of these kids. And fortunately, being in Allen County, there is a huge population of low income, white families, and so that that demographic is well represented, and we've got some great partners as well in Middle Tennessee that also represent that demographic. Is that one other demographic that we're kind of missing.

     

    Spencer  1:14:00

    I really love in your story was we talk about healing related to diversity, that you gave us good examples of heavy topics. I mean things that visualize the differences of where someone is at the start of their life. And that's intense, but you also balance it with three girls talking about their hair, and I mean questions that are silly, but we all are curious about that. We just don't have a frame of reference to be able to even feel okay to ask those questions because of what it might mean, what it might make us look like to ask those questions, and as I hear you, part of healing seems to be just the level of which you're able to talk about race sitting here completely comfortable. Can you just walk me through for a second? But when someone sees you, they're going to think white guy. And I just wonder, when you're having conversations with all of these different groups, what are some strategies that you use to help bring ease to both parties, to be able to try to overcome the really entrenched barriers that have existed for a long time. How do you navigate that and show that? Hey, I can authentically speak on this topic.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  1:15:34

    Yeah. I mean, obviously God gives us all a very unique story, and that's where I always start. I mean, our friend Dewey always talks about being an eyewitness, yeah. And I just, I feel so blessed. I mean, so many times I'm like, Lord, why in the world did you call me to this? This is like, huge. I'm not equipped, you know, but God has let me experience like, every level, you know, the economic strata, just through my mom's kind of rags to riches story, and I'm just, I'm so grateful for that. It's your story. It is. And then racially too. I mean, growing up in Alabama in the 70s, you know, there was a police presence at our middle school because of the black and white tension, and I had the Japanese woman picking me up from school. There's this, like, Oh my goodness. I mean, I was like, ducking both sides of the track and just hearing, you know, the racial slurs all along the way, and just the wounds and the baggage. And so I just felt like God has given me, you know, the gift of empathy, you know, and and how would you know if you haven't experienced it, like you said? And so, I mean, I think starting with my story, man, it just gives other people permission to share their story. Yeah, and so if you're somehow vulnerable and brave enough to put yourself out there, and I'm an introvert, so I mean, it's just like, I gotta give myself a pep talk. You know, I was nervous coming in here today.

     

    Spencer  1:16:54

    You're still the three year PhD.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  1:16:57

    Yes, keep me at a microscope in a dark room in the corner of Andy. I'm good, yeah. So it's hard, you know, to be bold enough, but the Spirit compels me, and so that's when I speak, and I just trust that God's going to do the rest, and he has, I mean, just it's amazing to see, you know, the walls come down whether I'm talking, you know, to someone like you, or I'm talking to someone that it's grown up, you know, in a much different circumstance, you know, in the projects. And there is some authenticity to it, if you're willing to let the Spirit speak through you, and then to hear their story and listen and care and come alongside them. I mean, it just it speaks volumes. And that's the opportunity we've had over 25 years is that so many people like my African American pastor was like, Tommy, there is no way I know you're Japanese American, but he said, what you said, you're a white dude. You're not walking into a Missionary Baptist Church and getting them to come to barefoot. You're gonna have to bring me with you, you know. And I wish I could say he was right, but he wasn't. I mean, the truth is, you know, once you get across the table, and if you're willing to share that story, man, people just open up to you. And I mean, I think you know, if you have a relationship with Christ, you know the spirit is going to speak to them too. And that's been my experience when I've had those opportunities to be across the table from people that I don't even have everything in common with, and so I think it all starts there, and that's why I'm so passionate about shared experiences, and that's what we find at Camp too. Is like some of these kids, you know, they're just like me, they're just like, Nah, I'm never gonna have the thing in common with MBA kid, yeah, you know. Then they get around the camp fire, you know, and we have this lantern ceremony. And first night at Camp even, you know, you're kind of speaking to this earlier. I never answered the question, but we usually have a lantern ceremony the first night of camp. And we're just asking the kids, this is private, but we'd love for you to write on this paper lantern, you know, just like you saw on enchanted. That's where we got the idea from. My little four year old was giving me the elbow. We should do that at camp. That at camp. Daddy, yeah, great idea. But we're asking kids just to write down, what is it that you want to give over to God? You know, what are you trusting God for this week? I mean, just really simple questions like that. Do you have any prayer requests? And so these kids are all taking the time to, like, write on these big paper lanyards in their republics. And before we send them up, we do give them the opportunity. Do you want to share? Spencer, is there anything you don't have to share? It's totally optional. Does anybody feel led to share? And of course, we ask the counselors to kind of lead the way. And definitely, most of the kids will share, even on the first night. And like looking at the eyes of some of these kids, and it's just like you struggle with anxiety as well. Yeah, you know, you don't have a great relationship with your father either. They just can't believe it, because, again, they're seeing what I see too, the monogram luggage, the trash bag they never would imagine. You know, these kids are struggling with the same thing they're struggling with. And so what we. Hear most from kids is like, barefoot is the only place where I feel comfortable in my own skin. And I think it's because we are so transparent and vulnerable just from the very beginning of the week. And it's amazing what God can do, if you'll just trust Him with that.

     

    Annalee Cate  1:20:18

    It sounds like one of the things I'm hearing you say too is, I think, and maybe, maybe this is where, in the corporate world, and just societally as a whole, where we've lost some of it. Is it? It does seem like we've let diversity become such a like a race and skin color topic, and it sounds like you guys are really highlighting the complexity of diversity and and it takes out a barrier to being able to find commonality that you know, no, we may not be able to find commonality on this, but look at all of these other complex issues. So it sounds like, if I'm hearing you, a huge part of the strategy is exposure and then highlighting and celebrating that complexity of diversity and then allowing for the communication and the healing, you know, obviously, you know, for barefoot all under that spiritual, you know, God connection. But would you say that those are the ingredients that have, kind of helping create a different environment of it barefoot?

     

    Tommy Rhodes  1:21:15

    I mean, one of my favorite stories our first father son weekend. I think my son was seven years old, and I mean, he'd heard me share my story corporately many times. He had questions. He'd understand all of it, you know, but we had probably 14 boys there that did not have fathers, but they had mentors. And he picked up on the fact that those weren't actually those boys dads, and he gave me the elbow, and he was like, Dad, that's the way you grew up. Can you imagine if you would have had somebody like be a mentor to you? I mean, I just was bawling. I mean, it was just amazing to think that even though he'd heard my story so many times, he didn't really understand it, it became real. Yes, in that moment, it was just like, that was you. I get it. I can't imagine now, now I understand why you needed that male role model so much. I can't if somebody would have stood in the gap for you, you know, and I was so grateful for that. That would have never happened if we hadn't, like, been courageous enough to, like, put ourselves in a very uncomfortable environment. And later that same night, it was so cool in terms of celebrating diversity, we had a lot of Hispanic families there, and I'll be honest, I had never, like, lived together in unity with Hispanic families like it talks about in Psalm 133, I didn't really know if it was good and pleasant. I was a little nervous about staying in a cabin. And these Hispanic dads. There were three of them in our cabins. They were all like praying for their sons before they went to bed. But it wasn't like me. Just kind of like leaning over and whispering prayers. You know, to Bobby, they had, like, their son's head in their hands, like praying these blessings over them. And I speak like this much Spanish, I didn't really need to understand what they were saying. The dads were like crying as they're, like praying over their boys. And Bobby's like, give me the elbow again, you know. And he's like, Dad, why don't you pray for me like that? Like, I don't know how you know. And it was just such a beautiful glimpse into a culture that I had no exposure with and it was beautiful. I mean, it was just like, I need to be able to pray for my child like that. I mean, I've never witnessed something like that. And so you're right. I just think, you know, in the world, you know, it's so divisive as you shared, and it's so easy to buy into the stereotypes, because that's all we know so many times. I mean, how many of us really get a chance to, like, be around the table, you know, like it talks about in the Bible, with every tribe, nation and tongue, on a level playing field? I mean, most of our encounters, you know, for being honest, is we're going to serve, you know, we're going to help. Those are not bad things. Please, don't you know, hear me say that those are wonderful opportunities, but they're not really shared experiences. And so that's again, you know, what barefoot is all about is just trying to create those glimpses, you know, to let us really appreciate why God didn't make us all the same? Yeah, he could have, I mean, there's no reason why God couldn't make us all the same. He intentionally chose not to do that. I mean, there are some mammals that don't have cones. They can only see the world in black and white. God could have allowed us to only have rods in our eyes and only see in black and white. Yeah, but God, in His great design gave us the ability to see color. Why is there anything to be gained from it? Is there any value in it? Of course, there is. But it's hard in this world that we live in to, like, lean into that and have those opportunities, unless you're really, really intentional. You know, in seeking those out. I mean, everything is working against us, and the world is winning. I mean, that voice is drowning out. You know what Jesus prayed for in John 17, and that's what breaks my heart. Is like, I want to see the church lead the way. I want to see the church care about this. So many times when I talk to the church, you know, it's just like, Well, Tommy, you know we're just, we're just, we're ministering to our community, and we live in this, you know, whatever community. And I'm just like, have you done a demographic study? You know, if you draw a 10 mile radius around this church, I promise you, you're hitting more than just your demographic.

     

    Spencer  1:25:57

    I think it's so amazing to hear this message that you are just a really uniquely called individual, to be able to be leading barefoot and your experience is to get back to Providence, not coincidence. It's amazing to see that recurring theme in your life in so many different ways, because culturally, I think you're right, we've taken more steps back in diversity than forward, and it's great to see you fighting a battle to give the shared experience. That's really my takeaway from what I hear about what makes camp different is that it's experiential, and you get to have the moments of deep thought and the heaviness of that lighting the lantern. You're riding it on the outside of the lantern, it heats up like you see those lanterns that goes up into the sky and literally burns up. And you're standing there, hand in hand with other campers that are coming together two paths that should never, ever cross, and you're right there together. That experience is so important, then mixed with going down a water slide and splashing into a man made lake that you have at your place. So let's wrap with this. You're a nonprofit that lives and breathes off of providing scholarships for people that cannot afford to be there, and taking you back to you running around and saying, the accessibility is deeply unfair. So there are a lot of people that will be really moved by hearing your story and hearing your mission. So if you could wrap us with your 62nd elevator pitch of saying, for those that feel compelled by barefoot Republic's mission, what does their dollar do when given to you as a steward.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  1:28:02

    Thank you. Spencer, yeah, if I had the opportunity to share, I mean, we think in terms of multiples of $250 so $250 provides a full scholarship for a camper to experience day camp. Wow. So whenever we're prayerfully considering an expense, you know, or trying to raise funds. It's all around that number, wow, $250 and for overnight camp, it's $500 and so those are the two numbers that we kind of fundraise around. And you know, about 75 80% of our support comes from individuals. So I appreciate you teeing that up for me, because we really cannot exist without individual families coming alongside. There are some companies and small family foundations that come alongside, and sometimes they'll support an entire Republic, you know, for instance. And so that's 14 campers, typically in a republic. And so that math kind of works out to $3,500 you know, sends a group of kids to day camp, or $7,000 sends a group of kids to overnight camp. And we're so excited, you know, 25th year, 25th 1000 camper, and we're anticipating eclipsing the $5 million mark in scholarships awarded over the first 25 years this summer. And so we're just, we're just blessed to be able to say yes. I mean, our camp registrar, I tease her. I feel like she has the best job in America. Every time she rings the phone rings, she's able to say yes to a family in need because of the people that come alongside us.

     

    Spencer  1:29:35

    Tommy, I feel like you really embody the hands and feet of Jesus out there making a difference in the community and the region the world. It's a privilege to know you. Thank you for being here today. It's been a real treat.

     

    Tommy Rhodes  1:29:48

    Thank you guys for having me.

Kylie Larson

Kylie Larson is a writer, photographer, and tech-maven. She runs Shorewood Studio, where she helps clients create powerful content. More about Kylie: she drinks way too much coffee, is mama to a crazy dog and a silly boy, and lives in Chicago (but keeps part of her heart in Michigan). She photographs the world around her with her iPhone and Sony.

http://www.shorewoodstudio.com
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